What I will be explaining here is the removal of a fastener from your vintage Citroen . Most of these fasteners will be 25 plus years old, and you are perhaps removing them for the first time since the Citroen was new.

Depending on the location and the vintage, and of course where a fastener has spent it’s life, can have a great deal to do with how difficult it might be to remove when you want to take it apart.

When I say location, I mean if the fastener is located under the dash of your Citroen or holding the front bumper on will make a great deal of difference as to how you want to approach removal.

If the Citroen was ever run in the winter on salty streets, or for that matter lived in the  humid eastern part of the U.S. or the drier western part will also make a huge difference.

If the fastener is located inside the Citroen interior and did not see any corrosive damage, it should be relatively easy to remove. But, if it spent it’s life on the outside, or even worse if it spent it’s life in a location such as the exhaust system of your Citroen where there is a constant change in temperature as the system heats up and then cools off, then you might be in for a challenge.

Several things can be done to help in the removal of a stubborn Citroen fastener and here they are:

• Shock
• Heat
• Penetrant
• Lubrication
• and lots of back and forth movement.

1. Shock: This is something that may not appear at first to be helpful, but can add up in the end. What you want to do is find a way, if possible and space permits,to give a couple of good solid blows with a punch or drift to the end of the fastener head. Be careful to not slip off and mess up or deform it and make it so a wrench or socket will not fit on it. I personally find that this is a very good practice to do when removing Citroen engine head bolts, especially when you have two dissimilar metals at work.
2. Heat: Another way you might want to try if you have a small flame torch and that is to heat up the fastener. This is especially useful when you are trying to remove, and have good access to, a nut that you want to remove. Heat up the Citroen fastener until it is glowing hot. Try to just heat up the nut as much as possible and not the bolt. Once it is glowing be careful not to burn yourself and get a nice (preferably 6 point) socket or box end wrench on the nut. Now, see if it will loosen up at this point. Here is where you really have to use your judgement and take things easy because if you meet any resistance you want to back off and reheat the nut. If I get any movement from the fastener at this point I usually back off and turn it back towards tightning the fastener .
3. Penetrant: Spray a good quality penetrant on the threats and start to work the fastener back and forth tightening and loosening.  With each tightening and loosening you make a little more progress towards removal. This will sort of make the fastener act like a tap or die depending on whether it is a nut or bolt. The fastener will slowly work it’s way through the rust and as you continue to spray penetrant on, things will hopefully wash the threats out, lubricate them and make things easier to remove. The main thing I want to stress here is take it easy. If you meet any resistance stop and think about the problems and time you will waste if you snap that puppy off and have to try to extract the remains of the fastener by the use of a bolt remover, or worse yet have to drill things out. Sometimes that will just happen and you will have no choice but try things easy first to avoid that if possible.
4. Lubricate: When you do get things apart, using products like Never Seez to coat the threads of the Citroen fastener when you replace it will prevent the fastener from being frozen and difficult to remove next time.

Put your comments in the box below,  because I am always open to new ideas for Citroen fastener removal that I have maybe never tried before.

Thanks,

Denis

Here recently, someone wrote in and asked me what the point gap was on their 1975 Citroen 2 CV . The best way I figured to answer this would be to list the Ignition System Specs for the 2 CV-6 engines from 1970 thru 1990 . These have the engine code: AO6/634/5

• Ignition Coil Make: Ducellier

• IgnitionCoil Type: 4009

• Ignition Coil Supply Voltage: + with Balast resistor: 11,0

• Primary Resistance: Ohm: 3,4-3,8

• Firing Order: 1-2

• Distributor (ECM) Make: Ducellier

• Distributor (ECM) No: 605774

• Contact Breaker gap/trigger air gap mm: 0.4

• Dwell Angle: (%): 106-112 (60)

Hope that answers the question. I do have to say that because it is fairly hard to get at the points, ie: removing the fan blade, you might want to seriously consider going to a 123 Ignition System . It is a fantastic distributor for classic Citroëns . It will give you a much more accurate and powerful spark and you won’t have to mess with it ever again.

The 123 Systems are distributed here in the states by Erik deWidt and you can contact Erik at erikdewidt@aol.com in the eastern part of the country and in the west at French Parts Service at: http://www.2cvsource.com

Take care of those little engines in your Citroen 2CV and they will take care of you.

It is imperative to bear in mind the grave risk of misaligning the camshafts , causing possible damage to the valves or engine.

When the chain tension is slackened, it is possible for the valve springs to overcome the pressure of the cam lobes , forcing the camshafts out of alignment.

To prevent this:

On the right side…

1. Bring the piston No.1 to TDC of the exhaust stroke.
2. Attach a 6 or 8 mm. socket type Allen wrench to a standard torque wrench . Insert it into the head of the tensioner adjustment bolt and retain a torque of 15 ft.lbs.
3. Loosen the two nuts locking the chain tensioner while retaining the torque.
4. After these nuts are loosened, re-adjust the chain tension torque to 15 ft.lbs. Then tighten the nuts to 15 ft.lbs.

On the left side…

1. Bring the piston No.6 to TDC of the exhaust stroke.
2. Follow the same procedure outlined above.

Hope this Citroen Tech Tip helped and please leave a comment to let me know what other Citroen questions you’d like answered.

Later,

Denis

OK, so one last hydraulic article and I will move on to other topics, but I couldn’t let you get away with out telling you about a hydraulic flushing product made by Total called Hydraurincage . We seem to call it Hydroflush over here, but Hydraurincage is the correct name for it from the mother land.

This is a good product that I personally have had some very good results with. Any LHM vehicle can benefit from the use of this product if it has any age on it or has sat around or been in storage for any length of time. Total’s Hydraurincage will flush and clean out the hydraulic system making it perform very near to new again.

Now here is what the manufacturer says for use instructions.

1. Drain the hydraulic system as much as possible (Also clean out the Hydraulic filter at this time)
2. Fill the system with TOTAL Hydraurincage . (Bleed the brakes until you see Hydraurincage coming out) (You want it throughout the system to get maximum results.)
3. Drive the vehicle for 1500 to 5000 Km maximum. (Take through one oil change or 3000 Miles)
4. Drain and clean the hydraulic filters . (You will be amazed at the amount of crud you will find)
5. Refill system with Total LHM Plus . (Bleed those brakes once again until you see LHM coming out)

The results that I have found with Total Hydraurincage in the system for just 100 miles is pretty profound. Much better steering response. If the car had Citromatic , or a hydraulic shifting transmission , the shifting was night and day better.

The ride was even improved. In fact, I am told that the product was developed during the production of the CX to help with the varnishing up of the suspension cylinders causing sticking in the suspension cylinder pistons and a harsh ride.

However it was developed is beside the point. It is just a very good product that should be used in every old LHM Citromatic transmission before you set it up with the Dellinger adjusting article .

Total Hydraurincage can be purchased in this country in the East from Brad Nauss Automotive at www.bradnaussauto.com phone: 717-691-8550. Tell Brad you want hydraulic system flush . (and tell him Denis Foley sent you. :0) )

In the West it can be found at www.westernhemisphers.com It is listed as part# M-1200435 Cleaner,hydraulic flush Total.

Now what this product does is get all the varnish and dirt out of the system and bring it back to the filter, and it holds the smaller stuff in suspension until you drain it out. Very good product that I can’t say enough about. Take care of those Citroen beauties, don’t make ‘em any more.

Later,

Denis

I know that I have harped on this subject for several articles now, but it is more of a problem than you might think. I found when I worked on Citroens , the cars either caught fire and burned or were abandoned because the hydraulic system had become contaminated and the owner found out that it was going to be mighty expensive to repair the car.

Well, the shop manuals and the dealer bulletins would tell you to replace some of the major rubber components. Then, if the car was a brake fluid car you were supposed to flush the lines out with first alcohol , then (I love this) gasoline , then alcohol again. If the car was LHM you were to use: gasoline , then alcohol . The systems were then to have compressed air blown through them to dry things out.

Now here is my advice…

Most cars, unless you catch it right away, are far too gone with rubber deterioration to merely have a few things replaced and then blow things down with air. What you have to realize is, just like a dirty gas tank , you either deal with it completely or walk away from the car.

You have to weigh what the car is really worth to you and the market, because what I am going to tell you is the cheapest way to deal with this problem.

Find another Citroën of the same vintage with the same hydraulic items on it. What I mean here is, if it has a Citromatic or hydraulic assisted transmission , you want to find another car with that same option.

Now this Citroen should be one with all the proper hydraulic parts and systems intact, but find one that is either an accident casualty, or a car with a rusted out frame. If you find one that is both then you really did well, because that means you can probably buy this Citorën quite cheap and in this situation, that is the name of the game.

Next you want to put your Citroën next to it, remove all the body panels, put it up on jack stands or a lift and start removing all the hydraulic components , and I mean everything . This includes all rubber hoses and return lines , even the hydraulic tank . Once this is done you want to shoot carb cleaner and then compressed air through all the steel lines that are still on the car.

Repeat this process twice.

Now that is done, sit that rusted out car that you purchased with the same components on it next to your keeper and start removing the parts from it and putting them on yours. This will probably take you or your mechanic a good 40 hours worth of labor time, so be sure to weigh this into the final cost of things when you figure whether your car is worth performing this task on or just walking away from.

Be a realist and face up to the fact that unless your Citroën is a fine example with a fresh motor, a nice interior, sweet frame, and a good looking paint job, you might be better off trying to find another nice example of your car without a contaminated hydraulic system .

This problem will not just go away on it’s own.

My little video yesterday showed you a simple test to do if the LHM system has a little brake fluid in it. Now I will tell you some of the tell tale signs to look out for when the system might be contaminated.

This may seem silly for a system that is marked properly on the hydraulic reservoir for what type of fluid it should take. But, many of these cars change hands numerous times. (just watch eBay for a few months and you will probably see the same car come up again and again with a different seller each time) There are just people out there who might toss something into the system before they realize what it takes.

The hydraulic system of the Citroen is composed of quite a few rubber components. In the early days, with the Citroën15/6 H and the early D Model, a rubber called EPDM was used when LHS2 , a form of brake fluid , was used.

Later, when they devised a rubber that would stand up to mineral based oil, they started to use Buna . A few other types have come along over the years as improvements in rubber manufacturing have been devised.

One thing I have to say here about EPDM compared to Buna in standing up to its respective fluids, is that EPDM stands up far better to brake fluid in the long run than Buna does to LHM . I say this because, when I take apart an old brake fluid sphere to rebuild the rubber diaphragm , it is always in good shape and still holding gas , sometimes almost 50 years on in many cases. (That is if it always had the proper fluid in it.)

The other thing is the EPDM was much less susceptible to molecular diffusion , or the loss of gas then the Buna .

The Buna on the other hand (if it is an original diaphragm ) has always turned to GOOP . The newer rubbers they have now hold up must better I must say, but that original Buna was not good in the long run.

I guess the point I am trying to make here, is that rubber for hydraulic use is designed to hold up to the specific fluid that runs through it. Pollute this in anyway, (and I mean it just takes only 1 to 2 percent of the wrong fluid in the system) and the rubber parts will start to deteriorate very quickly.

The way the system is set up, the parts effected first are those ones with the biggest surface area and the most fluid traveling across them. In the case of the Citroen , this is the diaphragms in the spheres . So, one of the first signs you will probably have is a ride that starts to deteriorate. Next, as the diaphragms blow out and gas from the spheres is injected into the hydraulic system, you will start to get air in the brake system as the gas is circulated through the system.

As the ride deteriorates and the brakes start to get air in them, the fluid level goes down in the system, as the entire sphere needs to be filled up with fluid at this point. You will also notice the hydraulic pump start to cycle with greater frequency.

The steering at this point no longer has any power assist!

Now hopefully the owner realizes what is happening before this situation happens, but if he doesn’t, then he is in for an expensive bill even if he does a lot of the work himself.

Next, I will cover what would be the most cost effective way to handle the above condition.

Later,

Denis

Always bad news to any Citroen owner, this can prove to be one of the most expensive single problems an owner of a Citroen can have. This includes 2CVs because I have seen the wrong fluid put into their hydraulic brake system too.

Back in the old days, the reason for contamination could mostly be blamed on confussion, for there was a period of time from 1966 to 1969 1/2 that cars being sold over here in the U.S. had LHS2 (Brake Fluid Based ) from the factory, while cars being sold in other parts of the world had LHM or (Mineral Based) fluid in them.

Over the years one thing led to another with many owners and people who really should not have been working on the cars putting in the wrong type of fluid.   

What I am going to explain is the method I always used to tell if a system is contaminated with either Mineral fluid or Brake fluid.  With this test  we are talking about a Citroen with a complete hydraulic system, ie: brakes, steering, suspension etc.

Here’s a little video to show you how…

The video should have shown you the steps, but if you like to read them as well, here ya go.

What you want to do is get a sample of the fluid, but first you want to get a glass and fill it half full of water. (leave it alone, don’t drink it. :0) 

To get an accurate sample this can be done in one of two ways.

1. Either draw off a good 8 ounces or so after the car has been warm and running for a while. (Remove it right from the reservoir).
2. The other way is to drain the entire system.

I prefer the first method if possible. I usually drain this into a jar that you can put a lid onto. Now close the jar and shake it up vigorously.          

Now take the jar and open it up and fill the rest of the glass with the contents of your sample. Let it sit for about 15 minutes and then examine the mixture in the glass. Now here is were things get interesting. 

 Because the brake fluid is hydroscopic it will mix with the water and turn it a milky color. The mineral oil will always separate from the brake fluid and float on the top The main thing in this test is the use of water. Remember the brake fluid will always mix with it and the oil based fluid will always separate. 

One way or the other this spells trouble. Next Time I will tell you some of the symptoms you will notice in the car that can point to a system being contaminated.

Mounting the torque converter up in the wrong position will cause the timing hole in the bell housing to not line up with the timing mark on the converter housing.

To prevent this from happening, it is very important to set the position of piston No.1 of the motor at TDC . After you do this, position the converter so that the timing mark lines up with the peephole in the bellhousing.

Always remember to check twice and do once.

Take care of those Citroën SM engines they don’t make them anymore!

Later, Denis

It Includes:

1971 DS21 , 1981 GSA Break Special, 1956 Traction Avant Normal 11B, 1973 SM with 5 speed manual 3 liter V6 Maserati engine , Chapron (pedal car :0( ), 1987 CX GTI 2.5 Liter 5 speed, 1991 Peugeot 505 SW8, 1956 Lincoln Continential Mark II, and much, much more…

Hydronumatic Suspension demonstrated. Enjoy.

Denis Foley