Just had a question from a gentleman who is traveling to the Citroën Rendezvous in Saratoga Springs, NY on Father’s Day weekend. He wanted a list of everything he should do to make his Citroën 2CV safe for the trip. This is my advise… a list of thing to check and do.

Electrical:

• check all lights and signals and make sure they all work

• head lights, hi and low beam

• signals

• brake lights

• flashers (if you have them)

• marker and plate lights

• check wipers

• check horn

Tires:

• check for wear

• check pressure (also spare)

Suspension:

• lubricate knife edges

• jack up front of car

• grab front wheels at 9 and 3 positions and check for play (tie rod and steering rack wear)

• grab front wheels at 12 and 6 position and check for play (king pin wear)

• jack up rear of car and turn rear wheels and check for any strange noises (wheel bearings and brake drag)

Body:

• check that all body panels and make sure that all fasteners securing them are tight

• make sure top is secure when it is attached at windshield

• check tightness of wheel lugs (check owners manual for torque)

Under the hood:

• check engine oil level

• check transmission oil level (should be right up to side fill plug)

• check air cleaner (make sure all is snug secure)

• check the belt for wear and tightness

• check battery connections and make sure posts are clean

• check brake pad thickness and parking brake adjustment

• check all cables and linkages for clearance and wear

• check to make sure there is good clearance between the fuel line and the exhaust pipe and manifold. (this can often be very close and even dangerous.)

• make sure hood secondary latch lines up and hood completely closes

• check under car for exhaust leaks with the engine running

Pack the following tools and parts:

• small socket or wrench set containing 8mm to 21mm  sizes

• screw drivers both Philips and straight blade

• wire connectors and crimper

• some extra wire

• electrical tester

• electrical tape and duct tape

• extra fan belt.

• proper brake fluid for vintage of car ie: brake fluid or green fluid

• 2 spark plugs and a set of wires

• set of points and condenser (unless you have a 123 ignition installed n the car)

• spare light bulbs for every light on the car

• jack,

• lug wrench,

• flashlight

• nitrile  or vinyl gloves and cheap pair of coveralls.

That should probably do it without bringing the kitchen sink. Hope this helps.

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On the Citroen SM with 3.0 Liter Maserati engine and 3 speed automatic transmission, it is very important to remember this. If you remove the torque converter for repair, it’s possible when reattaching it to the engine to attach the torque converter to the crankshaft pulley in any one of four positions, only one of which will be correct.

Mounting the torque converter up in the wrong position will cause the timing hole in the bell housing to not line up with the timing mark on the converter housing.

To prevent this from happening, it is very important to set the position of piston No.1 of the motor at TDC . After you do this, position the converter so that the timing mark lines up with the peephole in the bellhousing.

Always remember to check twice and do once.

Take care of those Citroën SM engines they don’t make them anymore!

Later, Denis

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This was a question that recently was sent in to me, and I covered it a bit in the article that I wrote about removing the Citroen D Model fuel tank, but I will go into greater depth here.

What I will be explaining here is the removal of a fastener from your vintage Citroen . Most of these fasteners will be 25 plus years old, and you are perhaps removing them for the first time since the Citroen was new.

Depending on the location and the vintage, and of course where a fastener has spent it’s life, can have a great deal to do with how difficult it might be to remove when you want to take it apart.

When I say location, I mean if the fastener is located under the dash of your Citroen or holding the front bumper on will make a great deal of difference as to how you want to approach removal.

If the Citroen was ever run in the winter on salty streets, or for that matter lived in the  humid eastern part of the U.S. or the drier western part will also make a huge difference.

If the fastener is located inside the Citroen interior and did not see any corrosive damage, it should be relatively easy to remove. But, if it spent it’s life on the outside, or even worse if it spent it’s life in a location such as the exhaust system of your Citroen where there is a constant change in temperature as the system heats up and then cools off, then you might be in for a challenge.

Several things can be done to help in the removal of a stubborn Citroen fastener and here they are:

• Shock
• Heat
• Penetrant
• Lubrication
• and lots of back and forth movement.

1. Shock: This is something that may not appear at first to be helpful, but can add up in the end. What you want to do is find a way, if possible and space permits,to give a couple of good solid blows with a punch or drift to the end of the fastener head. Be careful to not slip off and mess up or deform it and make it so a wrench or socket will not fit on it. I personally find that this is a very good practice to do when removing Citroen engine head bolts, especially when you have two dissimilar metals at work.
2. Heat: Another way you might want to try if you have a small flame torch and that is to heat up the fastener. This is especially useful when you are trying to remove, and have good access to, a nut that you want to remove. Heat up the Citroen fastener until it is glowing hot. Try to just heat up the nut as much as possible and not the bolt. Once it is glowing be careful not to burn yourself and get a nice (preferably 6 point) socket or box end wrench on the nut. Now, see if it will loosen up at this point. Here is where you really have to use your judgement and take things easy because if you meet any resistance you want to back off and reheat the nut. If I get any movement from the fastener at this point I usually back off and turn it back towards tightning the fastener .
3. Penetrant: Spray a good quality penetrant on the threats and start to work the fastener back and forth tightening and loosening.  With each tightening and loosening you make a little more progress towards removal. This will sort of make the fastener act like a tap or die depending on whether it is a nut or bolt. The fastener will slowly work it’s way through the rust and as you continue to spray penetrant on, things will hopefully wash the threats out, lubricate them and make things easier to remove. The main thing I want to stress here is take it easy. If you meet any resistance stop and think about the problems and time you will waste if you snap that puppy off and have to try to extract the remains of the fastener by the use of a bolt remover, or worse yet have to drill things out. Sometimes that will just happen and you will have no choice but try things easy first to avoid that if possible.
4. Lubricate: When you do get things apart, using products like Never Seez to coat the threads of the Citroen fastener when you replace it will prevent the fastener from being frozen and difficult to remove next time.

Put your comments in the box below,  because I am always open to new ideas for Citroen fastener removal that I have maybe never tried before.

Thanks,

Denis

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Question

Please advise how to access the fuel tank sending unit on a 1956 Citroën Traction 11BL. Either I have lost the electrical connection or the ground, or maybe the float has sunk to the bottom of the tank. I have toyed with the assumption that since I have filled the tank with gasoline, the meter which is calibrated in liters of essence does not recognize the liquid which now fills the tank and therefore the gauge reads empty. Any and all advice sincerely appreciated.

Citroën Tech Tip

Thanks for your note. On a 6 volt system you always want to look for the ground to be the usual problem when something electrical does not work.

The sending unit operates by resistance in a coil of wire that the connection in the tank slides up and down on. When the tank is low with fuel, the connection is at the bottom of the coil with many windings. The higher the float goes in the tank, the fewer windings on the coil and thus the less resistance electrically. This makes your gauge on your dash head toward full. It starts off at about 1.5 volts and raises to the full 6 volts when the float is to the top and the tank is full.

If you have an electrical tester you want to gain access to the connections to the sending unit. This will be on the floor of your trunk under the floor mat. There should be a little trap door to gain access to the unit on the trunk floor.You will need a volt meter

of some kind, and a jumper wire preferably with an alligator clip on each end.

Disconnect the coil wire on the car, so that no damage happens to the ignition points, and then flip on the ignition key. Find the wire that is feeding power to your sender by touching the negative on the tester to a good grounding surface of bare metal in the trunk area. Then hook the positive end of the tester to one of the electrical wire ends leading to the sender. Once you find the positive connection you now know that you are at least getting current back to the sending unit.

Now make sure the connections are clean on the sender unit, and hook the jumper wire I mentioned that you needed to the other tab or screw connection on the sending unit. Clip the other end of the jumper wire to a good ground and then go see if your fuel gauge is working.

This is what I have found, over the years, to be the most common cause with Citroen Tractions and early Citroen D Series cars with 6 volt systems… A bad ground.

If that does not solve your problem, what I have found in rare cases is the cork fuel sender float in the tank has become water logged (or in this case fuel logged). Sometimes the new reformulated fuel can cause this to happen.

If that is the case you will need to remove the sending unit from the tank, and either replace it or find some type of coating to apply to the float that will stand up to fuel and seal the float.

Oh yes, and the next time you want to run your car, don’t forget to re-connect the coil wire.

.

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Question

This question came in recently, pertaining to the placement of jack stands and garage jacks under the car…

I just read your tip about getting under the car to check transmission worries, and you said to be sure to use jack stands.

1- where do I use my garage jack to lift the car?
2- where do I set the jack stands?

My problem is changing the starter on a Citroën SM.

Citroen Tech Tip

To answer I thought I would put this short video together:

Because the person asked this question about an article I wrote about checking the Citroen SM clutch I will answer it for that car in particular. I will answer it with a non running car in mind.

Hope that helps.

Denis

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Recently we have gotten several questions about Citroen CX brakes. Most often it is a case of the person replacing the pads on their front brakes, but not having replaced the rotors.

Here is the situation with this and any other modern car out in the real world when getting brake work done today. If you don’t want your brakes to pulse or chatter after you replace the pads, you have to replace the rotors also.

The manufacturers really don’t give you much tolerance to work with to turn or resurface the brakes anymore, so this is the best thing to do if you want to eliminate the chance of brake pulsing after you go to the work of replacing the pads.

This issue sort of popped it’s head with the late U.S. speced Citroen DS cars. Brake squeal and pad glazing was a problem, so the pads were made out of a harder and more aggressive compound, and the rotors were made from a softer metal. This got rid of the squeal and glazing for the most part, but it meant that rotors wore out much faster. This problem continues with the Citorën CX models that are in this country.

What you have to remember, is that as that rotor gets thinner and it’s mass is less, it does not have the same capacity to shed off heat that is built up during braking. It therefore warps easier, and things just get worse from there.

Turning or resurfacing the the rotor usually has very short term benefits, especially if the rotor is fairly close to it’s specs recommended by the manufacturer. Plus, a lot of mechanics feel that the metal has a bit of a memory, and it is only a matter of time after resurfacing and the rotor will be back to it’s old ways.

I know it is an additional expense to replace the rotors when you replace the pads, but if you really want to enjoy the high power braking that these systems demonstrate, then reach into your pocket and grab the change for an extra set of rotors when you replace your brake pads

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Yep, this is a rant.

Ever have a classic Citroen that you are working on and go into a modern day auto parts store looking for a set of spark plugs for it?

Here is how it goes, you walk in and let’s say for example you have been working on a 1972 Citroen SM and you want a set of Champion 415 spark plugs? You go to the counter and there sits a 19 year old. His hands are poised over the key pad of the store computer. You ask him: “Do you sell Champion Spark Plugs”? He answers: “Yes we do”

You now ask:” Great, would you have 6, Champion 415 in stock”? To this the store clerk answers: “What kind of car is that for”? To this you answer” What difference does it make I gave you the part number” Now the clerk gets a very strange look on his face and tells you that unless he knows the make and model of the car he will not be able to look it up.

Now here is where it really gets funny in this particular case. You finally tell the clerk that the spark plug that you have given him the part number for is used on a 1972 Citroen SM. He next asks : “How do you spell that”? With your blood pressure slowly rising you spell out C-I-T-R-O-E-N. He then asks: “who makes that, Pontiac, or Oldsmobile”?

At this point you hold your tongue and politely explain that, that is the name of the car company, and would you please just look up and see if you have any Champion 415 plugs in stock? To this he answers that he has never heard of that car and unless he can find a listing for it on his computer he can’t find the plugs for me.

Remember if you can, back in the old days when you went into an auto parts store and 4 guys sat behind the counter on bar stools and each had a set of parts catalogs clamped into a 7 foot long binder in front of him. If you knew the part number for the part you needed he might take a quick glance at a catalog and then get off his stool walk back to the shelves in the back of the store and emerge with your part. It was pretty easy stuff, with very little anxiety.

Now, I was thinking that I need a bottle of Armour-all. No particular one of my cars in mind to use it on. Think it would be safe to say I could get it at my local auto parts store without too many questions?

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Question

I have problem with my Citroen CX 25 turbo 2 rear brakes. Front work perfect, but rear not! I changed 3 brake valves and same result. All spheres have proper pressure, so I have no idea how find solution.

Citroen Tech Tip

One thing that we have noticed lately here at Citroen Tech Tips is that quite a few people having trouble with bleeding down the rear brakes in most any of the Citroëns with Hydraulic suspension.

What has to be realized is that the rear brakes don’t come into use on these cars unless there is a good bit of weight in the rear because of the brake proportioning system.  This system puts most of the braking force to the front wheels because most all of the weight of these cars is biased toward the front of the car. Plus these cars for the most part have their rear brakes fed by the rear suspension.

The typical situation we hear about. is a person has done some brake work on the car and the system was opened up, or they had a brake accumulator that ruptured or leaked nitrogen into the system. They work on the system and then take the Citroën out for a ride and notice that the rear of the car dives down every time they apply the brakes. An attempt is made to bleed the brakes but no fluid comes out of the rear brake bleed screws.

How to properly bleed down the rear brakes on a Citroën with hydraulic suspension.

First safely put the Citroen up onto jack stands, or on a lift. With the engine running put the Citroën in the highest suspension position. With an assistant applying the brakes in the car bleed the front brakes.

Now come to the back of the car and bleed the rear brakes. It is very important to have a Citroën with hydraulic suspension in it’s high position when bleeding the brakes or you will not get the rear ones to bleed down. This  means even when you have it elevated and the wheels are hanging, because when the wheels are hanging the rear brakes are completely shut of hydraulically unless the suspension is in the highest position.

Good luck and be safe when doing this procedure. Hope this Citroen Tech Tip helps.

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Question

I recently purchased a 1972 Citroen Maserati that starts and runs. Problem is the clutch seems inoperative. The person selling the car for the owner claimed that the last time the car was driven, the clutch stopped working. The pedal seems to operate correctly and the slave cylinder moves in and out.

I noticed that the system was low on hydraulic fluid, so I purchased new LHM and topped it off according to the instructions in the owner’s manual. I then bled the slave cylinder. I also adjusted the slave cylinder according to the instructions in the workshop manual. Neither procedure made a difference. The gearbox operates freely. When I put the car in gear and slowly raise the clutch pedal, absolutely nothing happens. When the pedal is a full height, the gearbox can still be operated.

Being brand new to SM ownership, I’m uncertain what to try next. Any suggestions or information will be greatly appreciated.

Citroen Tech Tip

From what you have explained there is a good chance that the clutch disc or the pressure plate has broken. When this happens there will not be any connection between the engine and the transmission. The other possibility is that there has been some type of transmission failure such as the input shaft being broken or it’s splines being stripped.

So with the engine running and the gear selector being moved without any type of gears clashing then there is no connection between the engine and the transmission. Looks like things are going to have to come apart to really see what is the problem.

One quick test that you might want to do first is to safely and securely jack up the car or put it on a lift. If you jack it up be sure to use jack stands and DO NOT rely on the Citroën hydraulic system to elevate the car.

Once it is securely up get under it and remove the sheet metal cover on the bottom of the bell housing. Once you have done this you will be able to see a portion of the clutch from the point where you removed the shield.

Now if everything was working properly you should be able to put the Citroën SM into 5th gear and turn one of the wheels and see the clutch and flywheel turn also, but in your case this is probably not going to happen.

Hope this Citroen Tech Tip helps,

Denis

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Question

My car is an 1987 Citroën CX that has an intermittent stall when the engine is hot. It starts straight away from the ignition switch. It doesn’t happen all the time.

Citroen Tech Tip:

The most likely cause is a bad ignition pick up sensor on the flywheel. We recommend everyone carry a spare with them. Because this is a very frequent problem an owner should always carry a spare.

One other area you should check on with a car like this with electronic fuel injection is the condition of the air intake manifold, hoses, and connections.

An air leak in this area can cause all sorts of drive-ability issues, as the ECU tries to adjust and readjust the fuel mixture to compensate.

Hope that this Citroen Tech Tip helps you,

Denis

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