Recently we have gotten several questions about Citroen CX brakes. Most often it is a case of the person replacing the pads on their front brakes, but not having replaced the rotors.

Here is the situation with this and any other modern car out in the real world when getting brake work done today. If you don’t want your brakes to pulse or chatter after you replace the pads, you have to replace the rotors also.

The manufacturers really don’t give you much tolerance to work with to turn or resurface the brakes anymore, so this is the best thing to do if you want to eliminate the chance of brake pulsing after you go to the work of replacing the pads.

This issue sort of popped it’s head with the late U.S. speced Citroen DS cars. Brake squeal and pad glazing was a problem, so the pads were made out of a harder and more aggressive compound, and the rotors were made from a softer metal. This got rid of the squeal and glazing for the most part, but it meant that rotors wore out much faster. This problem continues with the Citorën CX models that are in this country.

What you have to remember, is that as that rotor gets thinner and it’s mass is less, it does not have the same capacity to shed off heat that is built up during braking. It therefore warps easier, and things just get worse from there.

Turning or resurfacing the the rotor usually has very short term benefits, especially if the rotor is fairly close to it’s specs recommended by the manufacturer. Plus, a lot of mechanics feel that the metal has a bit of a memory, and it is only a matter of time after resurfacing and the rotor will be back to it’s old ways.

I know it is an additional expense to replace the rotors when you replace the pads, but if you really want to enjoy the high power braking that these systems demonstrate, then reach into your pocket and grab the change for an extra set of rotors when you replace your brake pads

No related posts.

Question

How do I remove the exterior rear door handle on a 1972 Citroën D-Series?

Citroen Tech Tip

Got this question in recently and thought we would answer it here on Citroen Tech Tips since it is not the first time the question has come to our attention.

I am at a loss as to how to access the outside rear door lift handle assembly for removal. While attempting to press out a small dent surrounding the outside door lift- handle using a lever through the window glass slot I dislodged one of the “bobby pin” shaped flat springs from the backside of the handle. So I not only need to replace that, I also still need to remove the handle to finish the dent removal. Any information will be sincerely appreciated.

To take a 1972 or later Citroën D-series door handle off you will need a combination 8mm wrench, a small punch, a door panel remover, or putty knife, a flashlight and a mirror.

We have included some pages from the parts book to more easily describe things. Have the window in the full up position for this procedure.

8-983/7 shows the Citroën door panel that you need to remove, but first you want to look at plate:#7-961/1. This shows the window crank #5 that needs to be removed first. What you will want to do is push in on the door panel around the window crank to compress the spring #13 around it’s base. When you compress the spring this will expose the shank of the window crank.You may have to turn the crank slightly to see the cross drilled hole in the
crank that has a pin in it. Here you may get lucky and have the pin drop out when you compress the handle, but if not you will need to use the small punch or even a finishing nail to push it through.

Once the crank is removed you can then look at plate #8-983/7 to see how the #8 clips are arranged that need to be carefully popped out with the panel remover or putty knife placed under the panel and carefully pry. Be careful not to tear the Masonite panel that the clips are mounted in.

Carefully work your way around the edge of the panel and remove it.Under the panel you will see what we
Ike to call: “windows” that are through the back side of the door. These are closed off by pieces of plastic, unless someone else has been in there before you and failed to put them back. Here you will want to remove several of these plastic closing pieces close to the back end of the door where the exterior door handle is located.

Now, looking into the door with the window rolled up, you should be able to see the door latching and lock mechanism. You may have to use a flashlight and even a mirror of some kind to see the back side of where the exterior door handle is mounted.

Referring to plate #7-861 you should see a backing plate #12. This plate has two 5mm bolts with 8mm heads that hold it to the back side of the exterior door handle. You will also see in plate #7-861, a pinch bolt #13
that holds linkage #11 in place. Be sure to get a marking pen or some type of marking device to mark the location of this linkage where it goes into the latch mechanism so that when you slide it back into the latch mechanism it is in the same position as when it was removed. If this is not done the adjustment of the door to open from the inside and lock will not be correct.

Once you have marked the linkage position loosen up the 8mm headed pinch bolt so the linkage is loose.

Now move to the two 8mm headed bolts that hold the backing plate #12 to the back side of the external door handle. Remove these bolts and the door handle should be able to be removed from the outside of the door.

Putting it back in should be the reverse. Make sure to check the latching and locking of the door before you close things up. Another thing to remember is to reinstall the plastic on those door “windows” we described before. Here an all purpose contact cement can be used. These pieces of plastic are vital to sealing the door off from water getting to and warping the Masonite door panel backing.

As far as the “Bobby Pin” clip that you spoke of, we are not exactly certain what you were referring to. With the backside of the door opened, if it fell down into the bottom of the door you should be able to find it and figure out where it went in the mechanism.

Something we forgot to mention is… you might want to keep a few bandages around for those cuts you’ll be getting from some of the sharp edges inside the door. They are treacherous.

Good luck with removing your Citroën-D series exterior door handle. We hope this Citroen Tech Tip has helped. Please leave a comment below if you have any suggestions.

No related posts.

Over the years, one of the most asked questions I got about Citroens from both customers and the general public was… “How much is it worth?”

My usual quick answer was… “Whatever someone is willing to pay.”

I know this seems like a bit of smart a** answer, but the real answer is not easy.

The Citroen D Model for example…

Take for example the Citroen DS, the car I worked on the most. If you find one for sale, on eBay for example, it might have been spending the last few years of it’s life sitting under a tree.

Hmmm…

The seller thinks he has a work of art. He discribes how it was running several years ago when parked and how it should be just fine, but later in the discription… there appears to be a hydraulic leak and the car no longer goes up and down.

The seller starts the auction off at $7,000.

Let’s get real here!

Then along comes the highly educated professional who buys the above car. His story usually goes that his uncle had one when he himself was very young and he has always wanted to get one.

He wants to know…

Can he fully restore the car and enjoy it a bit then flip it and make a profit?

NO!!!

Now here is a person who you assume has made some good investments and financial decisions during his life, yet he is bringing this car to you and asking this type of question.

His next question is… “What will it cost to fully restore the car”.

This is where you usually make the person very angry by telling them you simply work for “time and materials”, and that to fully restore the car, the owner will probably spend 7 to 10 times what the car will ever be worth.

Now this is where the guy usually walks off in a huff and calls every other Citroen mechanic he can find. But, he ends up calling you a couple of weeks later saying he has done some research and asks… “Hey, would you be interested in buying the car as is?” Don’t ya just love it?

Here’s the REAL scoop on how to buy a nice Citroen…

My usual answer to someone who wants a nicely restored car and wants to get a fair price on it is to take their time. Join all the clubs, go to club events and talk to everybody.

Find a car that someone has for sale, that was fully restored and maintained by a good reputable Citroen mechanic for several years. (And this is important, because that uncle that spent several summers in France and worked on the cars a bit is not the person you want restoring the car.) You also want to see a paper trail on all the work done on the car.

Next, try to find an owner who has finally gotten the word from his wife that… “he should sell the car because she wants that new kitchen that he had promised her before he bought and then restored that Citroen DS.”

Now here is where that person’s loss is your gain. He dosen’t want to sleep on the couch and you get that car for what it is worth… “A fair price”

Don’t forget to leave your comments below and watch for my article on… Rustproofing your Citroen to keep it’s value.

No related posts.

7.17 CITROMATIC – OPERATION AND ADJUSTMENT

INTRODUCTION

Don James, OH (840912)

The series of articles by Don (Red) Dellinger to follow will help you put your Citromatic back in adjustment, no matter how screwed up some previous owner has made it.

Follow the instructions step by step. Please remember one thing—check the simple things first. If your Citromatic sounds like it has marbles in it, bleed the centrifugal regulator at the bleed screws provided at the top. The Citromatic will not work correctly if there is air in the brakes, so bleed at the carburetor, too.

If the gears grind, check to be sure that the clutch release lever is moving forward far enough. If it is, and the gears still grind, there is obviously something wrong with the clutch and pressure plate—not the Citromatic! The gears would grind, even with a standard shift. As with most of the problems that owners have with their Citroens, 99% of the problems that develop, come from simple, and avoidable causes.

The single biggest problem with Citroens is caused by mechanics working on the car when they do not understand how it works! They never fail to put the entire car out of adjustment and cause more damage than years of normal wear could cause.

An automatic transmission that gets the same fuel mileage as a standard shift has been the dream of many auto makers for years. The trick is to eliminate the clutch, but retain a direct drive with no slippage. This was invented years ago by Citroen. The transmission was not a fully automatic, but could have been if they had wanted it.

It is what we now call an automatic stickshift or semiautomatic transmission. Citroen called it “CITROMATIC”, and it is more wondrous than their famous hydro-pneumatic suspension.

7.18 CITROMATIC – OPERATION AND ADJUSTMENT PART 1 – PRINCIPLES AND ADVANTAGES

Donald (Red) Dellinger, PA (840912)

Many people get confused about Citromatic equipped cars especially if they have never had any previous experience with this type of shift. Most owners who have driven them for years do not understand the workings of this hydraulic marvel. When I think of it, it must be as close and effortless as you can get to a fully automatic transmission without the undesirable aspects of the fully automatic transmission such as loss of power, loss of control, flexibility, economy, etc.

The Citromatic is quick, positive, safe, economical and effortless IF all units are working and are adjusted properly. No four speed shifts faster or more accurately than a DS with Citromatic. No declutching manually, no wait for synchronization, no foot slipping from clutch pedal, no clutch slip (riding clutch), no left leg cramps in traffic, quick shift from 4th to 3rd are just a few of this transmission’s good points.

One of the transmission’s great points is ease of shifting even in hard cornering when extra power is needed. In a normal 4-speed equipped car you must remove one hand from the steering wheel, declutch with the left foot, move gear lever with right hand, release accelerator, etc. Valuable time is lost in these motions! The control of the car may be lost by split second timing in an emergency corner- ing situation.

Citromatic is instantaneous and when adjusted properly the shifting is precise. Most people are not patient enough to take time to understand Citromatic. Most mechanics do not understand it, therefore cannot adjust it properly. Most Citromatic clutches are so improperly adjusted that they have overheated and warped which causes clutch chatter and gives erratic operation.

Once all of the components of the Citromatic are adjusted properly the only slippage the driver will get is if the car is started off in a gear higher than it should be (2nd or 3rd when it should be in 1st). Have you ever observed the shift pattern closely? Typical Citroen engineering!

The transmission must be in neutral to start for safety (the shift block can only be in neutral or the starter will not turn). 1st and reverse are directly across from each other, this is for ease of parking (minimum movement of the lever). A properly adjusted DS will idle into a parallel spot just by touching the brake pedal and shifting from 1st to reverse to 1st again.

By the way, the brake pedal on a DS is to be operated by the right foot only—no left foot on brake and right foot on accelerator like an american auto – this will defeat all adjustments. The champignon or mushroom foot brake rubber sphere is designed for a minimum travel its entire life and is lower than the accelerator pedal for a special reason—quick reaction time from the accelerator to the brake with the right foot, your foot only has to pivot on the heel to depress the brake and pivot to the right for the accelerator. If this is not so in any Citroen D-model the accelerator linkage needs adjustment.

This is all leading to proper driving of the DS Citromatic. When all the adjustments are carried out properly to the driver’s satisfaction, from this time on, normal maintenance should be a clutch adjustment every 10,000 miles (5,000 miles if the car is used primarily for stop and go driving).

EXCEPTION: when any of the components in this circuit are replaced, then adjustment of that component is necessary. The transmission, differential, clutch pressure plate, clutch disc, and release bearing are identical to the manual shift cars except for the internal shift rods and forks and the operation of the clutch. Instead of a mechanical clutch cable and rod there is a clutch slave cylinder and fitted to the transmission top covers are five servos or pistons (one each for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and reverse).

Lines leading from the hydraulic gear selector (shift block) to the transmission connect to these servos and are tied together in one bundle. Like any hydraulic clutch slave cylinder, it has one function – to engage or release pressure on the clutch release fork to operate the clutch mechanism. This lengthy description is necessary because the manually shifted car clutch free travel is also adjusted here by feel of distance or clearance, which can be checked quickly with finger and thumb, but NOT the Citromatic.

The Citromatic clutch is adjusted so that at 750-800 rpm the clutch components are just about ready to contact each other—disc, pressure plate, and flywheel. Putting it more simply, the clutch release or throw-out bearing is depressing the fingers on the pressure plate to the point where the clutch is just about to engage slightly but is still disengaged.

For comparison on a manual shift car, the point reached when you are in 1st gear and have eased out on the clutch pedal to where another 1/8” would cause the car to start to creep away on the level. Manual shift and Citromatic clutches are adjusted differently. The manual clutch is adjusted without the engine running and the clutch pedal out (clutch engaged position) by pressing with your right thumb against the adjusting bracket (clutch fork) toward the radiator. There should be approximately 6mm clearance or play. Turning the adjusting screw clockwise reduces the clearance, counter-clockwise increases it. That’s it for the manual shift car owners, but for you poor buggers with Citromatic, let me continue as we are going to the meat and potatoes of it.

7.19 CITROMATIC – OPERATION AND ADJUSTMENT PART 2 – CLUTCH ADJUSTMENT

Donald (Red) Dellinger, PA (840913)

Start engine and bring to normal temperature. If the front of your car has been wrecked and the crank extension will not fit through the air duct without binding you must either remove the duct or make a tool from 1/4” or 5/16” rod (obtained from a hardware store) and weld about 2” 14 mm or 9/16” allen key to the 3 foot long rod. We use an old army surplus rifle cleaning rod that has a “T” handle that revolves.

This must take the place of the crank extension piece and is inserted in the front of the transmission and must be pushed in approximately 1”. This makes contact with the transmission main or clutch shaft which passes through the clutch disc and is supported by the pilot bearing in the flywheel. Now, back to the adjustment procedure: engine at normal operating temperature; turn the large air screw (brass) located at the front bottom left of the carburetor clockwise until seated and slightly tight, this should slow engine speed; check and adjust engine idle and mixture screws to obtain a smooth idle of
750-800 rpm (check with tach); Since the clutch disc is connected to the transmission main shaft and our crank dog is pushed in this is the speed the engine will be idling at when you stop for any reason in driving—so at this speed we want the clutch disengaged (primary idle). Since the clutch disk is connected to the transmission main shaft and our crank dog is pushed in with the crank or our home-made tool; by changing the adjustment we can adjust the DS clutch properly. Turn the adjustment bolt counter-clockwise with the engine running (WARNING: watch fingers in moving pieces—belts, fan, etc.) until the tool (or crank extension) starts to rotate, this will mean that the clutch is starting to engage. Then turn the adjustment bolt clockwise until the tool just stops turning (clutch just disengaged) then continue to turn the bolt one full turn clockwise. You are now finished with the clutch adjustment.

Note: If the shaft will not stop turning even after turning in the adjustment bolt all the way, then the pressure plate is broken and a new clutch is necessary. This is a fairly common occurrence even with manual shift on high mileage cars. If you try to adjust any other components of the system and you have a faulty pressure plate or clutch you will not be successful at all.

7.20 CITROMATIC – OPERATION AND ADJUSTMENT PART 3 – ENGINE IDLE

Donald (Red) Dellinger, PA (840914)

The next step (providing the clutch adjustment was successful and the clutch/pressure plate mechanism is working properly) is to adjust the engine idle. I prefer 1000 rpm secondary idle. To adjust unscrew the large brass screw you previously screwed in back out (counter-clockwise) to obtain 1000 rpm. Now, step on the foot brake and the engine speed should drop to 750-800 rpm (primary idle). When you let go of the brake the engine idle should rise to 1000 rpm (secondary idle). You are now finished adjusting idle.

Note: Remember 1000 rpm minus 750 rpm equals 250 rpm (for future reference).

7.21 CITROMATIC – OPERATION AND ADJUSTMENT PART 4 – CENTRIFUGAL REGULATOR

Donald (Red) Dellinger, PA (840915)

Fig. 67 Sectional View of the Centrifugal Regulator Key: 1-Front bearing; 2-Bearing end plate; 3-Governor mechanism; 4- Assembling screws; 5-Regulator; 6-Dashpot; 7-Bleed screws; 8-Clutch disengagement corrector body; 9-Seal; 10-Rear plate; 11-Nuts; 12-Spring; 13-Piston; 14-Circlips; 15-Rod; 16-Spring; 17-Cup; 18-Seat; 19-Slide valve; 20-Support; 21-Pad; 22-Sleeve; 23-Pulley; 24-Adjusting screw.

The next unit we will adjust will be the centrifugal regulator, located above the high pressure pump and driven by a small belt from the pump. This belt must not be over tightened or the result will be premature bearing failure in the centrifugal regulator.

The centrifugal regulator has one purpose only. That is to start discharging fluid from the clutch slave cylinder between 800 to 1000 rpm of the engine (a very slight amount). When the engine speed increases from primary to secondary idle speed, just enough fluid is released from the clutch slave cylinder to make the clutch start to engage. When the clutch starts to engage just slightly the car starts to “creep” or move slightly in first or in reverse. Therefore the operation of the regulator is as follows.

When in first or reverse gear and your foot is on the brake pedal the engine is at primary idle and the regulator has clutch disengaged and the car stays still when you remove your foot from the brake pedal the engine speeds up (approximately 250 rpm) to secondary idle which in turn causes the weights in the regulator to signal the clutch to start to engage and the car begins to creep.

It is only normal to have your foot on the brake when stopped at stoplights or signals or for backing up. This is why it is important to use the right foot only for braking—so that the accelerator is released and the primary and secondary idles work properly. If the car will not creep when the foot brake is released in first gear, it will need adjustment. Shut off engine. The adjustment is an 8 mm headed bolt which goes through the center of the centrifugal regulator pulley and is locked in place with an 8 mm nut. Unlock the nut and turn the bolt out (counterclockwise) one turn. Lock the nut, then start engine and check creep again. Continue this adjustment (counter-clockwise to increase creep / clockwise to decrease creep) until the car is set to creep at a speed you are comfortable with. (If the car stalls on selection of first gear, turn the adjustment screw until you achieve the desired creep.)

This is a fine adjustment and should be adjusted in increments of one turn or less at a time. If the car stalls every time on starting out or coming to a stop usually the seals on the piston inside the regulator are swelled and hard, causing the piston to stick in the bore. This is a simple unit and consists of a set of centrifugal weights and springs acting on a sliding piston controlled by the adjusting screw. It’s only purpose is to activate between the difference in speed of primary and secondary idle to release a minute amount of fluid from the clutch slave cylinder.

7.22 CITROMATIC – OPERATION AND ADJUSTMENT PART 5 – GUARANTEE CONTROL

Donald (Red) Dellinger, PA (840915)

Fig. 68 Citromatic Guarantee Control

Fig. 68 shows the Citromatic guarantee control located on the right side of the transmission. Its function is to guarantee the transmission’s gears 1st and 2nd are engaged before the clutch can engage (for safety) by stopping fluid return from the clutch slave cylinder if the gears are not fully engaged. Adjustment procedure is as follows: hydraulic pressure up, engine off, gear selector in neutral, loosen two 11mm headed bolts which hold the control to the transmission, pull the unit toward the front of gearbox, stop and push backwards slowly until the unit snaps rearwards (this is the neutral position), and retighten the bolts. Generally, this unit never gives any trouble and almost never gets out of adjustment. Adjust only if it is removed for repairs.

7.23 CITROMATIC – OPERATION AND ADJUSTMENT PART 6 – CLUTCH RE-ENGAGEMENT CONTROL

Donald (Red) Dellinger, PA (840916)

Fig. 69 Clutch Re-engagement Control Adjustment

This control is attached to the intake manifold in front of the carburetor and is activated by the carburetor primary throttle shaft. Its function is to control how quickly fluid is discharged from the clutch slave cylinder between gear changes (how fast the clutch reengages during the shifting from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, and 3rd to 4th). There are two adjustments:

(1) On the side of the unit facing toward the driver’s side of the car, a straight slotted screw protrudes approximately 8 mm, sometimes with a knob fixed by a small screw. The knob has a small raised post allowing it to be turned only 350 degrees, but by unscrewing the small screw it can be turned without stopping on the small peg. If the speed of the clutch re-engagement between gears is too slow turn the screw in (clockwise) until you are satisfied with the clutch re-engagement speed. If the re-engagement of the clutch is too fast unscrew it (counter-clockwise) until it suits you. This screw will not unscrew and fall out and sometimes must be adjusted several turns depending on the condition of the clutch (such as when a new clutch is installed). After getting the adjustment set you can reinstall the small knob with the set screw. Install the knob straight up which will give you approximately 175 degrees of fine adjustment in either direction. The adjuster has a very fine thread, so the adjustment is not too sensitive. Caution: someone may have removed the carburetor and did not fasten the unit on the idle position. As a result the shaft adjustment in relation to the carburetor idle may have been moved.

(2) There is a small hole (usually plugged with a plastic plug) just above and to the rear of the shaft centerline (towards the front of car). This is an adjustment/ alignment hole. Normally with the throttle closed a 2.5 mm (.100”) wire should pass through the hole in the housing and go into the line- up hole in the internal shaft, locking the unit and the throttle shaft tight. If it does it is alright, if not proceed as follows: Grip control unit shaft with thin vice-grip pliers near the body of the control, hold shaft from turning, loosen the 8 mm bolt in clamp between the control and the carburetor shaft, push 2.5 mm (.100”) wire in hole in housing and turning shaft against spring tension until the wire falls into the hole in the shaft and locks the unit from turning, release pliers and align shaft coupling and tighten the 8 mm bolt. After realignment of the control, readjust the unit as No.1 above if necessary (it usually is).

Then on your road test after adjusting the unit drive the car at approximately 55 mph in 4th gear on a level road, move the gear change control to 3rd gear without releasing the accelerator pedal. The shift should be smooth and almost unnoticeable. If not, stop and fine adjust by the knob (or screw if yours no longer has knob on it), road test and readjust to suit your driving style. Total time involved is about 1/2 hour.

7.24 CITROMATIC – OPERATION AND ADJUSTMENT PART 7 – SHIFT BLOCK

Donald (Red) Dellinger, PA (840917)

Fig. 70 Citromatic Shift Block (“The Brain”)

There is only one adjustment on the shift block itself and it very seldom, if ever, needs readjustment unless the shift block is removed from the car. Adjustment procedure is as follows: With left hand reach under and to the rear of the shift block, there you will find a rubber plug with the largest part about 11 mm in diameter. After removing this dust cover you will have access to a 3.94 mm hole. When 1st gear is selected with the control lever a pin 3.94 mm diameter x 50 mm length will slide into the lineup hole approximately 30 mm and lock 1st gear position in the shift box. If not a mirror will allow you to see the hole.

The best method to line up the hole (if it is not already) is to have someone move the control lever to the left/right/in/or out slightly in order to line the hole up in the shift block so that the pin can be inserted. Once you have the pin inserted into the shift block properly then you must adjust the shift control lever to the corresponding 1st gear position. To do this you must first remove a dust cover from the metal cowl to the rear of the shift block (under the hood). This plug is about 1-3/4” in diameter and is made of rubber. It exposes two 8 mm bolts which tighten a clamp between the control lever mechanism and the shift block. To adjust, loosen the lower 8 mm bolt and align the shift control lever to the 1st speed detent (pops into place). Then tighten the lock bolt. Remove the alignment pin and reinstall the dust cover (plugs).

You are finished. This unit is faithful and almost never gives trouble but is often accused as being the cause of trouble. One exception is when it becomes gummed up and stiff (especially in cold weather). Then it must be flushed out or removed and cleaned. A hissing noise from the shift block can be caused by misadjustment or a sticking piston which can be remedied by adjustment or removal and cleaning. Seriously, this unit is like all Citroen hydraulic units and is well engineered and needs little attention. Should service be required never take it apart in place, it is easily removed from the car to be repaired on the bench.

Editor: Before you look for any trouble in this unit, be sure that you check the belt on the centrifugal regulator. The car will not move if the regulator is not turning. Do not overtighten the belt. Should the belt break, the car can be driven by using the manual engagement control that is located under the steering column.

No related posts.

Here is a wonderful video that was placed on YouTube a few months ago. It is taken from the British television . Here the Citroen DS is discribed in a general, yet telling way, always refering back to it’s 1955 introduction date and just how truely advanced the car was. I hope you like it as much as I do.

No related posts.